By Jack Dunne (February 15, 2001)
JD: Hello John! Thank you for the time. Let's get started. How did you get involved in boxing?
ICE: Hey, what's up, Jack!? Basically, my earliest memories go back to when I was a young kid. I used to read a lot of books about Muhammad Ali and I read things about Howard Cosell where he talked about Ali. I was really caught up in the Ali era. I remember watching the Thrilla' in Manila, the Spinks fights. When I was twelve my father bought me a set of boxing gloves and every weekend I would put the them on, jump on the bed and pretend that I was fighting Ernie Shavers or Jimmy Young. I even scored the fights and had post fight interviews, too. My father could tell that I was really interested and animated about boxing and when I was fourteen he saw an ad for a local gym. That was in March of 1982 and I haven't stopped boxing since that first day when I went to the gym he saw in that ad.
JD: You had a very successful amateur career after that. What was that like?
ICE: To this day I still look back on it and I still keep in touch with a lot of the guys I came up with. All of the kids that I train today, I take them to the same tournaments I competed in and they win the same tournaments I won. I was in tournaments with Roy Jones and so many guys like that. In fact I was there when Gerald McClellan beat Roy Jones in the nationals. I got to fight some great fighters. I fought Lamar Parks twice, Otis Grant, Melvin Foster, Joe Lipsey and Darren Allen, who was the world amateur champion. I'd say that my amateur career peaked when I beat Allen to qualify for the 1988 U.S. Olympic trials.
JD: Weight has been a problem you mentioned. How long have you had trouble with weight?
ICE: Well I can tell you this. As far back as 1986 in the amateurs I had trouble. One fight was on a Monday and I remember weighing 171 and I had to be 165 the next day and I made it. I made it that night and I fought very well in the tournament but as far back as then I can remember having trouble with weight. When I turned pro, my manager had me fighting at 160 and this was two and a half years later. I did what he told me to do and I did what it took to make the weight but it wasn't a good thing.
As far back as the amateurs, as far back as the beginning of my pro career, it's… and it's not just me, you wouldn't believe some of the things fighters have to do to just make weight. It's unnatural and if you are not dedicated all of the time… I was like most kids. I would fight and then I would take time off, eat and go up back to your natural weight.
JD: But you were able to do that because you were young.
ICE: Right and sometimes you can't help it. I mean, most people don't understand it. James Toney for instance. He was fighting 160, 168, most people don't understand. If he weren't boxing, he would have weighed 205-210!
JD (laughing): He weighs 205-210 today and he's boxing.
ICE: Right, right but this was back ten years ago. When he was in high school, he weighed 200 as a quarterback and he got down to weight. If it wasn't for boxing, there is no doubt. I would be 215-220 today, no doubt. I haven't eaten any junk food since May of last year and weight is still a daily concern. Right now I weigh 175 and I have never been at weight six weeks before a fight before, I feel great.
JD: You are a conventional fighter. You fought Michael Nunn in December of 1995. Going in you had a very respectable professional record of 35-4 yet you fought Nunn from a southpaw stance rather than conventional. Looking back, would you have done it again?
ICE: If you watch the fight, overall my best success came with the right hook, both to the head and a lot of clean body shots, something I don't think I was given enough credit for. It's a funny thing. What works well on one guy doesn't necessarily work well on another guy. Some guys, I have gone southpaw against and I didn't look good at all. I'm sloppy and just I don't look good. In fact, I used to box Charles Brewer in the gym a lot. When I used to go southpaw with him, for example, I just wasn't effective.
With Nunn, for some reason, him being a southpaw and me fighting as a southpaw, my right hook just seemed to land with regularity and it really played into it.
JD: You seemed to be able to block or pick off most of Nunn's shots and then time the right hand counter.
ICE: Right, exactly. It's funny, my whole career both amateur and pro, there are certain times when I can remember my defense being really sharp and that was one of the times. I mean he didn't hit me with anything good. Even the punches, compubox numbers certainly had me way ahead in power punches landed and I landed something like 20 more punches than he did.
My defense was really, really sharp, I was in tremendous shape and I trained very hard because I respected him so much and I still do. He is a great fighter. He tends to have a reputation as a guy who is not a big puncher but if you take a look at his record, he's stopped quite a few guys who are very good fighters.
JD: You fought a competitive fight and then the cards were read. It was a wipe out. Despite the fact that the crowd and the network calling the fight thought you gave a very solid performance in what was a close fight, the judges didn't. From a fighter's standpoint, is a loss considered a loss or do scorecards have deeper meaning?
ICE: That was a close fight. A lot of people thought that I had actually won the fight. Compubox numbers certainly had me way ahead in power punches landed and I landed more total punches than he did and I landed quite a bit more power punches than he did. You also need to look at the connect percent numbers. My defense has always been key for me and very few guys ever have a high connect percentage number against me. Mine are always higher and against Nunn it was very high. Something like 49%. Nunn definitely found me to be a difficult target to hit.
(Actual punch stat numbers for the fight were 1291 thrown, 373 landed at 29% for Nunn vs. 689 thrown, 389 landed at 48% for Scully)
My thing was, so I lost a decision, which wouldn't be the worst thing… but they really had me losing, you know… clearly! I kind of got an indication of the boxing business right there. I fought Nunn on a Bob Arum show and they kind of made sure that I wasn't going to win the fight. You know what I mean? If you have ever seen that fight or if you look at it on tape you will see, while they are announcing the scores, you will see me smiling and you can kind of see where I am telling myself "Ahh these guys, they got me." If you don't do that, you will end up crazy.
On a much bigger scale when you saw Whitaker against Chavez… I mean they are announcing the scores and you are thinking this is unbelievable, they can do anything, you are just at the mercy of these people and you can't do anything about it. It's like being in jail and you have the guards and they say something to you and they know that you can't do anything about it. In your mind you are thinking "you know if we were outside, I would hit you in the head with a brick" but I can't say anything because if I do, they will just put you in a cage somewhere. The judges have that same power and they can be blatant about it because once a decision is made, there is nothing a guy can do about it. They have an out; they can claim "Oh, that's just my opinion." It's kind of a messed up thing but I guess that there is no way around it.
JD: You fought Henry Maske in Germany for a world title in May of 1996. What was that experience like?
ICE: To be honest with you, the mind of a fighter is extremely complex it is kind of funny that you bring it up because I was talking to a guy in the gym today about that fight. I was telling him that it is not like the average person perceives it to be. They assume something like "you must have been psyched out" or "you must have been pumped up" and while obviously it was a huge thing, it was for a world title but I went into that fight with other things on my mind.
Two things that were really on my mind and again. My mother was very sick at the time. As it turns out she was just a few months from passing away. That was rough. She was constantly between the convalescent home and the emergency room during training. The other thing on my mind was, this was right after the Michael Nunn fight. I was thinking to myself, if they made sure that I wasn't going to beat Nunn. How in the world can I win this in Germany?
What really sealed it was the day after I got there. We went to the mall and there were things like towels and pillows and things in the mall with his picture on it. You know, it was almost like he was Elvis Presley or something. So obviously I could see that he was very big over there.
That being said, he beat me fair and square. We fought and he was very difficult. He was much taller than Nunn, his jab was much harder and just all things combined, it was a tough fight.
JD: John, You have had a pretty rough patch as of late. Your record is now 37-10. What would you tell someone who believes that you are no longer a contender but rather an impressive name on a resume?
ICE: Look, I know the business and I know that is how I would be perceived but the thing is, your mental make up even more so than your physical make up really dictate how things go. You can look at guy's records and you will see rough patches, three years worth, and then they win a title. With me, I fought Nunn and that was kind of a turning point for me. It really hit me that boxing was a kind of business and with my mother being sick at the time. Then I fought Maske and I lost. Then I was away from boxing because my mother was sick and then she ended up passing away. I mean that was obviously a very rough patch. I was there with her; I was there with THE moment that she passed away in the hospital.
So since then boxing hasn't quite meant as much to me. I was spending time adjusting to that and I really got away from thinking about the sport and I started thinking about the business of it. I was thinking "Oh, man, I'm never going to get another title shot if I keep going like this" so I wasn't really into the boxing thing at the time. Then they offered me the fight with Graciano Rocchigiani, and I knew I couldn't win a decision in Germany but I will go, I will fight him and I thought I fought real well. I cut him in two places and swelled his eye up almost closed.
When I was training for the Drake Thadzi fight I was going through a terrible patch where I just hated it. I hated boxing and I didn't want to fight. On the record books he has a win over me but I was nothing. He may as well have been fighting a ten-year-old. I had no desire to fight. I was just there.
After that fight I got away from it. I was out for a long time. I was just eating and hanging out with the kids and training with them and then they got me the fight with Sam Ahmad. I said ok, I am going to give it a last shot, I am going to get in good shape and I did. I really trained hard and then I threw a left hook in the first round and tore my rotator cuff. I fought through it, I fought one handed because I couldn't lift my left arm above my waist and, under the circumstances, I did pretty good. It was a tough fight and I banged up Sam pretty good and I only lost on a split decision. That fight has really rekindled me. I was fighting him with one hand and I kind of liked it. I liked proving to myself what kind of a guy I was. A lot of guys would have just quit.
I would say from 1996 to 1999 was just a time I was just going through the motions and I wasn't into it for various reasons but now I am still young and I was in the gym today and I was looking extremely sharp. This one guy who has known me since I was a kid came up to me and said that I was looking better than he has ever seen me. I said to him you know, it's a crazy thing but I feel like I am twenty years old. I feel reborn
JD: What are your career goals between now and the time you retire?
ICE: Obviously everyone says they want to win a title but with me it's not like that. There are now so many titles out there that it doesn't mean that much anymore. The money, if I make a lot of money I'd be happy but if I don't it won't really bother me. To me the boxing is still about boxing and looking good. I know that I can fight. I have shown flashes of it in certain fights. To me it is about having that one fight where I get done and I say "Boy, I'd like to show somebody that tape. That's me, that's how I fight." I have had some but I'd like to have another one.
It's hard to get away from that feeling. I think a lot of people don't understand it. They see a Sugar Ray Leonard making a comeback and they are almost aggravated. They say "Ahh, man, why does that guy want to fight again?" And they don't understand it because they have never been fighters. When you are a fighter, it's hard to shake that feeling. It's like they say the boxing bug, that's legitimate, that's a good way to describe it.
You wouldn't believe the guys who come into the gym. Guys I haven't seen in ten years come in and they want to fight. Do you remember Alfredo Escalera? He fought Alexis Arguello in 1978. He's a former world champion. He's 49 now and he came into the gym about two months ago and he wanted to fight again. My trainer was telling him that he shouldn't do it but he did some sparring. It was obvious he didn't wasn't the Escalara of old anymore and boxing competitively at this point in his life isn't realistic but my point is this, he hadn't fought in fifteen years but he still had that boxing bug. I understood him. I didn't laugh at him. I totally understood him because I know like all fighters that once you've tasted it, it is just so hard to get that taste out of your mouth. You want to box as long as you are able to walk. My trainer asked me the other day "Why do you want to keep fighting?" and I told him it's for the same reasons as when I was fifteen years old, nothing has changed.
JD: HIV and AIDS is a disease that is now a planetary crisis. You have a very unique story regarding the prevention and awareness of it. It's something you take very personal. Tell us about that.
ICE: Like I said when I was coming up in the amateurs I fought Lamar Parks twice. Him and I were friends and even after he turned pro I would go up to New York City and help him get ready for fights. There were rumors floating around about him having the virus and then we found out that he did have the virus. That was just devastating. One because I knew him and two because it was the first time I had ever heard of a young, strong guy like that getting the virus. You kind of picture it only happening to people in third world countries and things like that. Then it really hit home and I realized if he could get it than anyone could get it.
I was in Pensacola and I was sparring with Roy Jones and Lamar used to train with Roy and we all talked about it down there. So when I was there I said man I have to go home and get an HIV test. I had thought about all of the women I had been with and everything. So I went home and I vowed to myself, I was hoping that I would come out negative and once I do that I will start going to schools and talking to kids about it.
So I took the test and that's what really got to me. After I took the test I had to go back and get the results and the stress… it was unimaginable. I was thinking man this is crazy. I could come up with a bad result. In thirty minutes my whole life could change forever. My life would be over as far as I am concerned. People take me wrong when I say that and some even get offended. They say "Come on, your life isn't actually over." Let me put it to you this way. If you find out today that you have the AIDS virus your first thought isn't going to be to set the alarm clock because you have to go to work the next morning. Your life takes on a new meaning. If I have the choice of having it or not having it, I am definitely glad that I DON'T have it.
JD: You are the founder of the "Keep Your Guard Up" program. What is that all about?
ICE: I started talking to people about it and then I learned just how incredibly ignorant a lot of people still are about the virus. They don't think it can happen to them. They are really ignorant about how you get it. It's crazy and that is when I started going to the schools and talking to the kids. This program I have, it's gotten to be very well known. My poster is all over. People think that it is a really big operation but really, it's just me. I have people calling me at the gym and they ask me to talk to kids, men's groups and things like that. Basically every chance I get I go and I talk about it. I don't use statistics, kids don't care about that. I just tell them about it. I tell them look, this is what it is and you are going to die if you get it. I try to be as real with them as I can and I show them pictures of Lamar and me together. I tell them about the kids I train and how their fathers have the virus and that it's out there.
When I was in high school they told us about AIDS. They said that in fifteen years everyone in here, in the classroom, would know someone infected with it. That was 1985, the year I graduated, and I was thinking "Nahh, they're just saying that" but here it is fifteen years later and I know and have heard of a whole lot of people with it.
JD: In 1998 you were presented with the "Commissioners Award" by the Connecticut state health department for your work regarding AIDS awareness. What was that experience like?
ICE: They presented it to me at the state capitol in front of what I guess you would call a general assembly. It was a big thing. It was at the state capitol. There were television cameras there. I was presented this huge plaque. Actually I've gotten several others in the past years. In 1997 the "Connecticut Sports Writers Guild" presented me with their highest honor, the "Connecticut Sports Writers Presidential Award." They gave me that award based on my athletic career and community service.
JD: Are athletes normally associated with "State Health Department" awards?
ICE: The award from the state is not. It's normally a health worker or someone in the medical field. I am the only athlete that I know about in the New England area who has won something like this as far as I know.
JD: What typically goes on at one of your speeches?
ICE: Basically they just introduce me and then let me go. I talk for about an hour and it is all from the hip. I never rehearse anything and I never write down any speeches. I just bring up my past experiences and the words just start coming out. I tell them about Lamar Parks and about how when I was in high school how little this disease was and how obscure it was. Back then when I heard Rock Hudson had it I thought that it was like him and three other people and how it seemed like nobody was ever going to get it. It always seemed so far away. You couldn't have imagined back then that it would be what it is today. Nobody in your state had it and you certainly didn't know anybody who had it. When I was in school nobody knew anybody with AIDS. Now I ask the kids to raise their hands if they know or are aquatinted with someone with it and it's always the majority of the class raising their hands. That scares them a bit. I tell them that as bad as you think that was, in ten years you are going to be amazed by how many people you know that have this virus. That's terrible, it's ridiculous!
I know it's a lot to ask but lets pretend that everyone just heard about Rock Hudson and decided to work together. They stopped having unprotected sex. They remained faithful to their partners. They didn't shoot up and share needles. The disease would have been contained if everyone did that but obviously the fact that its spreading so fast and wide means that people weren't and aren't paying any attention.
JD: What is the cost of one of these seminars?
ICE: Nothing. I do this for free. I have been offered donations several times but I turn them down. This isn't about money.
JD: What are some of the most ignorant comments you have heard adults say about AIDS?
ICE: This was unbelievable but this one guy said "It's OK to have anal sex then, right?" he thought all along that it was ok and that he couldn't catch AIDS that way. This guy was totally amazed and he didn't have any idea what I was talking about. It's just amazing, I have actually have people say to me "You have to be gay to get that" and I thought that kind of thinking went out ten years ago. There are still people who think that way. Then some of them say things like "Yeah Magic Johnson got it but he slept with 10,000 women" or whatever it was. They think that the 10,000th one gave it to him, they don't stop and think that maybe the first one gave it to him and he gave it out to 9,999 women after that. People are really oblivious to the situation. I think that they want to be oblivious to it to a certain degree because it's such a horrific thing. Too many people think if they don't see it, hear about it or talk about then somehow it will just go away.
JD: You are deeply concerned about the AIDS epidemic that currently exists in Africa. A current statistic posted by The New York Times reports that the infection rate is currently as high as 36% in some African countries. Is enough being done to stop this crisis?
ICE: They are trying but it is a serious problem. Far more families in Africa consist of 6-10 kids than just two kids. What often happens is that a family will contract the virus and then have 7, 8, 9 kids and it spreads. People who don't live in Africa, they think it's only the natives over there living in mud-huts who have this virus. They don't realize that teachers, doctors, and policeman have this virus. They think that it's like "Tarzan got it" and its not like that at all.
They are saying that the infection rate among teachers is brutal. A feared problem beyond just the disease itself is that there isn't going to be enough teachers left to educate people… about anything. This is a severe crisis and people, because it is so far away, they don't even pay attention. I guarantee you that the majority of people, when the pick up the newspaper. When they see an article on the bottom of the front page and the headline has something to do with AIDS in Africa, they don't even read the article. They read about sports that happen in their town, they read about local political news, politics and the president.
They don't read articles about AIDS in Africa because they don't think of it having anything to do with them but … we… were all together on this planet and it's definitely not getting better.
JD: As a highly decorated expert in the field of AIDS prevention, what would you like to see done over in Africa?
ICE: To tell you the truth, the problem is now so big… me as just one man… it's beyond me. I have no idea, I don't know… at this point and I hate to say it but it might be too late. What can be done? I can't imagine what can be done… and that's a scary thing. Sit alone and think about it one night. This isn't a movie, this is real, and this is a phenomenon.
If you put me in charge of Africa right now and said "OK, let's do something," I wouldn't even know where to begin. I wouldn't even know what to say because it is so huge. I think people outside of Africa don't think about it and tend to just worry about themselves. That is why every kid I talk to, I will bring it up to them. It may be a serious way or a nonchalant way depending on the situation but you have to reach out to everybody that you can.
JD: John, SecondsOut.com has a planetary audience. Many people the world over are reading the incredible story about your personal war against AIDS and HIV for the first time. What do you want to say to them about protecting themselves against the virus?
ICE: It is the same message that I am telling to the kids in the schools today. I am trying to jar people into really thinking about it. You know, really thinking about it and realizing that it will effect them if they are not careful.
You can listen to me if you want and I know that a lot of you aren't going to listen to me. But I will tell you one thing. There are certain things that you can not avoid and one day, if you ever get this virus… you will remember me. You may never remember me from this day forward. You will finish reading this and never remember me. But ten years from now… if you ever get this virus I guarantee that I am going to pop right into your head again, you will remember me… because I was telling you. This is going to catch up to you if you aren't careful.
JD: Moving onto another topic. You work with a lot of kids in the gym as well as out of the gym. You have some pretty good fighters that you train. I take it that this is something you started doing when you took a break from boxing?
ICE: No, no, actually I've been doing that for a long time. When I was fighting as a middleweight, when I first turned pro, I was training kids. When I was fighting Michael Nunn, two weeks after I fought Nunn I had to go to the regional silver gloves. I had to bring my team. I had three kids entered in the tournament and we came home with three golds. So, no, I've trained kids for years.
JD: What got you involved in that?
ICE: For some reason, it's a crazy thing, it's a weird about me but for some reason, and I noticed this when I was a kid, when I was eighteen and before I even became a top ranked amateur. For some reason, the inner city kids, they really took to me and I noticed it. Even though I was young, I noticed that they really took to me. I used to bring them over to my house. I would work with them in the gym. I always saw that I could reach them.
When I first turned pro, I met a kid that I train now named Dwayne Hairston he's sixteen now. He was four when I met him. He started following me around the gym, he hardly even talked but he following me around the gym. All he knew was the projects. That was where he grew up, he was four, he didn't know anything but the projects, you know? But he was at the gym every day.
I would take him sometimes to McDonald's. He liked the boxing. I would take him to my house sometimes on the weekends and I would hit the pads with him and show him moves. As he kept growing older, I could see that he was getting to be good so I trained him. When he was eight years old he had his first fight and when he was nine he won his first title. In fact, he won three separate national tournaments by the time he was thirteen.
After I fought Art Baylis in October of 94', about three weeks later I drove Dwayne, my other kid Orlando and another Hartford boxer named Mike-Mike Oliver out to Cincinnati, Ohio. It was about a fourteen hour drive and both won what is called the National Boxing Foundation Championship. Dwayne and Orlando both won the tournament and Dwayne won the "Outstanding Boxer Award." Mike-Mike lost to a very good amateur named Tiger Allen out of Philadelphia. I have picked up other kids and when I am not fighting, they are fighting so I am busy fifty-two weeks a year.
JD: Are you going to become a professional trainer when your boxing career is over?
ICE: Without a doubt, there's no doubt. I've been lucky; I have had great kids to work with. In the history of Connecticut only two kids have ever won the National Jr. Olympics one of them was Marlon Starling in 74' (a former WBA and WBC welterweight champion), the other was Sammy Vega, a kid that I trained. Sammy won it in19 97. Sammy was also the first kid in Connecticut history to ever win the National Silver Gloves. I have had my kids win the Ohio State Fair, the National PAL (Police Athletic League) tournaments, our local and regional "olden Gloves." have had kids ranked in the top 10. Sammy was ranked #1 in the nation for over a year. I guess that I have shown an ability to do it (train) pretty well. So I am going too definitely gonna' Keep that going, no doubt.
JD: Getting back to your boxing career. Your last fight was in June of 1999 when you fought Sam Ahmad at the Blue Horizon in Philadelphia. That fight really sticks in your craw. Why?
ICE: I was really motivated for the fight with Sam. I showed up in great shape, I felt strong and things were just going good in the first round for me. You can just tell when things are going right. My timing was right and my shots were landing very hard. Then I threw my first left hook of the fight and I felt something give in my shoulder. Try to picture your shoulder as an apple. When I threw that left hook, the very core of my shoulder, of the apple, started to go numb. At that point my left arm was useless. I basically fought Sam one handed that night and considering the circumstances I did pretty well. I only lost by way of a split decision in Sammy's home crowd but I was disappointed because I knew that this was my chance to really shine and an injury kept me from doing so. In fact, after the fight, Sammy's manager came up to me after the fight. He knew that I had been in with some of the best and he respected my opinion so he asked me, what do you think of Sam? I said, what do I think? I think I would have killed that kid if I had two good hands. He didn't take offense to it; he just asked me what I meant by that. I told him that the guy was too easy for me to hit. I only had one hand but I was able to withstand everything that he threw. My defense was still good. I was able to bruise him up and I actually came on strong in the last few rounds. I told his manager that if I was right that I didn't see any way that he could beat me in a million years.
One reason I came off so strong after the fight was because I was still motivated to fight and two, because of the way that my arm was feeling at that moment, I just didn't think I would ever be fighting again. I didn't anticipate that I would and just figured that I wouldn't get a rematch anyway. After going through physical therapy for about three and a half months, then I started feeling stronger, then when I got back in the gym I realized not only could I fight, I wanted to fight Sam.
JD: What have you done to try and get a rematch?
ICE: I have called Sam's gym, I've written to the gym, I've talked to Russell Peltz numerous times. I have talked to members of the Philadelphia newspapers including Bernard Fernandez. I have tried to get them to write about it. I have heard of instances when Sam had fights coming up and they were looking for someone to fight him and I've told the promoters myself "I'll fight him" but I have been rejected at every turn. At one point the fight was set for early 2000. They had a date and everything and I accepted the fight. Russell Peltz called the gym one-day and he asked me what weight I thought I could make for sure. I said make it 175, I'll be 175. Russell said ok, let me call Sam's manager and find out what weight they want to do. Five minutes later Russell called me back and said that they changed their mind, they said No, they aren't going to take it. In fact, I saw Russell the week before Sam's last fight and I said "Man, Russell, you've got Ahmad fighting this guy (Demetrius Jenkins) next week, he might even get beat that fight, that's a tough fight for him" and he said "Look, they don't want to fight you."
JD: As you feared, Jenkins did beat Ahmad. In fact he scored a third round stoppage. Sam is now 0-2-1 in his last three fights. Is that still a fight you want or is the luster now tarnished a bit?
ICE: I am definitely still interested in fighting him. The records, his record and my record, they really don't matter. It's a personal thing where in the first fight I was totally prepared. I didn't have trouble making weight. I just hurt my left arm real bad on the first left hook that I threw. So I lost the fight on a split decision, I fought with one hand. I still know that this would have been an easy fight for me and I want to prove that by fighting him again. And with his performance last year against such a feared guy in Julian Letterlough in a fight that was called a draw after ten rounds but most people thought Sammy beat him, I think Sam is still a reputable guy despite his loss to Jenkins.
In his last three fights he has run into some difficulty too but if anything, the draw was very good for him because he fought Julian Letterlough who was the hottest prospect out there at the time and a lot of people think he won that fight. That raised his stock and since then his two losses were against two guys who are pretty good fighters (Will Taylor and Demetrious Jenkins). Like I said, it's regardless, even if it's not televised that doesn't really matter to me. I don't care. I'd even fight him at the Blue Horizon again. It's just a personal thing where I want to prove it to him that there was some flukiness to our first fight.
hate to have a guy walking around thinking he can beat me and accepting that he beat me when he knows that I had a hurt arm. I just want to straighten him out.
JD: John…Thank you very much! Amazing professional insight, amazing personal insight. It has been a pleasure on my part to have spoken to you and I hope that we do this again.
ICE: All right man, I appreciate that.
"The wait in the dressing room before a boxing match - that last hour - could be enough to strip a man that never boxed before of whatever pride, desire and heart he thought he had."
- John Scully, April 2002
